Check out this crossbow!

[brotherjack]

This is just an amazing looking piece of engineering. I wonder if it's legal in Canada?

http://www.swisscrossbow.ch/html/twinbow_II.asp

[ehntr]

There is nothing that would make it illegal. Depends on Provincial huntings regs whether or not you can use it in the archery season though.

[blacktail3113]

crossbows should not be included in the archery seasons!!!!

[brotherjack]

Originally Posted by blacktail3113

crossbows should not be included in the archery seasons!!!!

Neither should compound bows, or sights of any kind - makes it all too easy, but that's beside the point. The law is what it is.

[powderburns]

In Manitoba, crossbow's can only be used during rifle season.

[blacktail3113]

brotherjack there is no skill needed in a crossbow, show me your groups with a compound and then you can comment on no skill.
then I will bring out all the cedar arrows I have recovered out of wounded deer from rock creek when the the late season starts,
Hmm makes me wonder why I want accuracy and consistency.
Maybe we should talk ethics right away, huh, quick clean kill, hmmm makes you wonder?

[brotherjack]

Originally Posted by blacktail3113

brotherjack there is no skill needed in a crossbow, show me your groups with a compound and then you can comment on no skill.
then I will bring out all the cedar arrows I have recovered out of wounded deer from rock creek when the the late season starts,
Hmm makes me wonder why I want accuracy and consistency.
Maybe we should talk ethics right away, huh, quick clean kill, hmmm makes you wonder?

Having a good bit of experience with crossbows, traditional bows, and just a little with compound bow's, here's my experience:


Traditional bow (stick with string): lots and lots of practice and work involved to get good with one, and you'll probably never get competent to shoot a critter farther out than 20 or 30 yards with one. When I say competent - I mean you essentially never miss that pie-plate size killzone at a given yardage.


Crossbow: a whole heck of a lot more involved in shooting it straight than you would think. Really, all the same issues regular bow users have to face are involved. Consistency of draw, trajectory estimation, yardage estimation, arrow imperfections causing accuracy issues, etc. the arrows don't go any farther, any faster, or any straighter than they do from a compound bow. If you pull the string back and the serving isn't in EXACTLY the same spot as it should be - your accuracy will be drasticly affected. If you don't hold the limbs level - accuracy problems. If you can't tell the difference between 25 and 35 yards - accuracy problems. I could go on, but you get the idea. It took me better part of 3 weeks of practice every afternoon before I was confident enough to point a crossbow at a critter (crossbows are legal in BC, and I've used one to hunt with). As I alluded to already, I'm of the mind that you have to be able to pound arrows all day and not miss the killzone once in a given day of practice before you're ready to try that on a live animal. If I was satisfied to see a group of 3 hit the killzone a time or two at 30 yards and then go hunting, I could have done less practice (and been a significantly poorer shot with my crossbow because of it).


Compound bow: I've never owned one, so I haven't been through the tune-up process with one, which I know is more work than that of a crossbow. However, I've shot buddies bow's (already tuned and shooting nice before I ever touched them, obviously), and I find them extremely easy. Eye to the peep, pin where you want the arrow, center it in the peep, pull trigger on the release, and killzone shots every time - even with bows that aren't in my proper draw length or anything. Maybe a little easier for me because I've shot traditional enough to have a good idea what I'm trying to do, but the fact remains, I find it not very hard at all if you're using an advanced sighting system and the bow is tuned up and shooting straight.


Anyway, myself, I really believe that a bow is a bow - whether or not it's got cam's or not, or on the end of a stick with a trigger or not. A bow is defined, for me, as a device that uses a string and tension to fling an arrow. Different varieties of them have their own advantages and disadvantages.

If you're in the 'ethical - quick kill' camp, you should be in favour of outlawing stick-bow's and insisting on compound or crossbow usage (or even rifle only, if you want to be a militant about it).

if you're in the 'archery tradition' camp, you should be in favour of outlawing compound and crossbows and having stick-bow only.

Or, you can be like me, and think this whole debate is stupid.


Anyway, all that said; them's my thoughts, now you know them. For me, I don't want to discuss this anymore - I don't see a point to it - if some of you want to fight amongst yourselves, that's your business. I'm going huntin' instead.

[blacktail3113]

Brotherjack
after running a pro shop for four years and yes selling crossbows, I can say they are easier to shoot than anything on the market, there is really no practice involve in shooting a crossbow after the initial sight in process.

unless you buy the cheepest crossbow like a horton over seas make. around $150.00 mark than yes you will have serving issues.

But when shooting a crossbow there is nothing to do with bringing your shoulders together for the perfect release or setting draw length.
or proper grip.
If you believe hitting a pie plate at thirty yards is sufficient while practicing than I suggest you keep practicing because that is not good enough under hunting conditions.
I fear there will be more wounded animals that are running around with people that pelieve hitting a 8 inch pie plate is good enough.
what happens if that animal turns slightly right at release and now you only have a 5 inch Kill spot?

I myself and a lot of other bowhunters beleive that 3 inch groups at thirty yard are barely good enough.

I practice out to seventy yards all year, will I ever shoot at an animal that far away, NO but I have built the confidence that at 45 yards I will make the perfect shot.
And yes we all miss!!!
And crossbows should not be allowed in the Archery season unless the person has a handicap and cannot shoot a compound, recurve or long bow.
And the person proves sufficient practice.

[brotherjack]

Originally Posted by blacktail3113

If you believe hitting a pie plate at thirty yards is sufficient while practicing than I suggest you keep practicing because that is not good enough under hunting conditions.

I practice out to seventy yards all year, will I ever shoot at an animal that far away, NO but I have built the confidence that at 45 yards I will make the perfect shot.

I never said shooting pie plates was adequate. I said if you EVER shoot outside that pie plate during a practice session, you need to some more practice sessions before you hit the field. If you wanna get picky about it, I practice with a single arrow. Shoot it. Walk up. Retrieve it. Walk back. Setup. Shoot again. Change yardage every time. Critters don't sit around for you to take a second shot to tighten up your aimpoint.

I wouldn't shoot a critter past 25 yards, even with my crossbow (which is a Horton SteelForce BTW - best I could afford, and if you're right, maybe why I think a crossbow takes some trial and error and work to get handy with). IMHO, too much can happen in the nearly half a second it takes an average speed arrow to go 45 yards. I've watched too many hunting videos of critters jumping the string even in at 30 yards.

IMHO: the primary 'skill' required to hunt with compound or crossbow is getting close (25 yards or less, for me) to a relaxed, unaware, broadside, legal animal. Learning to do that reliably is much harder than learning to make a kill shot with a compound or crossbow, and is what separates bowhunters from riflehunters. Not what equipment you use to fling the arrow.

One of my favourite quotes on bowhunting went something like this: "An archer wants to see the maximum distance from which he can hit the bullseye. The bowhunter wants to see how close he can get before he takes that shot."

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, same as I'm entitled to mine. You aren't going to change mine, and I'm probably not going to change yours.

So, let me wish you good hunting, and we'll leave it at that, shall we?

[Gatehouse]

That sure is a cool crossbow.

I think I shoudl pick up a crossbow for next years archery season.

[blacktail3113]

ouch!!!
If you look really close you can see the corkscrew and the can opener, leave it to those swiss to figure everything out!

[Gatehouse]

Well, when you htink about it, the Swiss have a very long, and very pround tradition of crossbows. It's a big part of their heritage.

[StoneChaser]

Originally Posted by brotherjack

Neither should compound bows, or sights of any kind - makes it all too easy, but that's beside the point. The law is what it is.

Having shot all 3, I agree with brotherjack. If you ban Crossbows.... you should ban Compounds as well.

Any baffoon can pick up a "tuned" compound bow and become competent in short order to hunt deer out to 30 yards... skill that will likely NEVER be acheived in a lifetime of the "Average" traditional archer.

Not for one second do I buy the "skill" arguement with a compound bow. Carbon arrows, mechanical broad heads, trigger releases, kisser buttons, peep sights, stabilizers, fiberoptic sights, scopes, and bow mounted rangefinders, stabilizers, and bows with 40% PLUS letoff. .....

Give me a break, every one of these was done for ONE reason.... to make it EASIER!!!!!! So don't go preaching about compounds being in the same time zone as bare stick bows.

I personally like them all... still have to judge range and wait for the angle.

Bowhunters are THE most holier than thou group I've run into the hunting woods... almost as bad as flyfisherman

StoneChaser

[BCbucks]

Have to agree with stonechaser as well.

I'm not an expert with a bow nor do I have the knowledge about bows like others.......but what I can offer is that once I have my bow tuned and set up (with another experts help) I can hit 2-3 inch groups out to 40 yards without trying after a couple dozen shots. Its not hard with all the fancy whats its name stuff on my bow. The bow hunters out there are always willing to help out with tips etc regarding the functioning of my bow.

[Goat Guy]

I kind think that crossbows are a good thing. They are easier too shot and allow some guys the opportunity to go out and hunt during bow season. Also probably leads to less wounded animals. I've seen and believe there are several guys who don't shoot their compounds all year and then pull them out during bow season.

Being in the OK we have very liberal seasons and I've seen several bucks with arrows in various parts of their bodies-it pisses me off. There was a good muley hanging around here for 2 years that had fletching hanging out of his ass and still survived. While both guys above mentioned compounds are easy to shoot a compound hunter should still be launching a half dozen arrows a couple times a week-I don't think you need that kind of time for a crossbow.

If you want to go "all out" shoot a long or a recurve like my old man. Huge difference in the amount of time you need to practice. That's "real" bowhunting.