7x61 sharpe and hart

[horshur]

anybody have one--reload for it--info on obtaining brass???? My dad just bought one--Shultz and Larsen 26 inch barrel--oh my lord what a beautiful rifle. Light, points like a shotgun, easy to hold with slim european profile,trigger is crisp,action like butter. I am green with envy.

[Cariboo]

These are beautiful rifles and the 7x61 S&H will still give the 7mm Remington a run for it's money. The round dates to the 1950's and never did become too popular due to sporadic availability of factory ammo.

The case can be formed from other belted magnum brass such as 300 Win Mag once a set of dies are in hand. Norma still makes brass with a proper head stamp although it may be pricey if you can find it. Hornady has full reloading data in the manual I have on hand.

[horshur]

Originally Posted by Cariboo

These are beautiful rifles and the 7x61 S&H will still give the 7mm Remington a run for it's money. The round dates to the 1950's and never did become too popular due to sporadic availability of factory ammo.

The case can be formed from other belted magnum brass such as 300 Win Mag once a set of dies are in hand. Norma still makes brass with a proper head stamp although it may be pricey if you can find it. Hornady has full reloading data in the manual I have on hand.

Thanks--that is good to know you can form brass from others--Dad always wanted one and just got it on a whim--had to lend him a scope cause he spent all his money. Best be real nice to dad to stand a chance in the will

[Dogbite]

Horshur, your Dad is not going to like this. The price for RCBS dies for 7X61 S&H goes for $136.95 USD. The product # is 56247 and they are full length dies. Here's the direct link to the dies. https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/,Da...te=C09J155N142

RCBS will not ship outside of the US so you will have to get some gun shop to order them and expect to have a long wait. The other alternative is a set of used that someone may have kicking around. Maybe try pleading on Canadaingunnutz.

Hey 'Boo, did you hear me honk last thursday about 1:45 PM? No time to stop this time.

[horshur]

Originally Posted by Dogbite

Horshur, your Dad is not going to like this. The price for RCBS dies for 7X61 S&H goes for $136.95 USD. The product # is 56247 and they are full length dies. Here's the direct link to the dies. https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/,Da...te=C09J155N142

RCBS will not ship outside of the US so you will have to get some gun shop to order them and expect to have a long wait. The other alternative is a set of used that someone may have kicking around. Maybe try pleading on Canadaingunnutz.

Hey 'Boo, did you hear me honk last thursday about 1:45 PM? No time to stop this time.

It came with dies and some brass so no problem.

[Orangethunder]

I have been able to find brass and some boxes of factory ammo at the Kamloops gun show the last couple of years for a friend. I think he resized 7rem brass to work as well.

[Dogbite]

Originally Posted by horshur

It came with dies and some brass so no problem.

That's definitely a bonus.

I thought that Norma would have brass available but there is none listed on their website. RWS does not have a listing either.

[Orangethunder]

Originally Posted by Dogbite

That's definitely a bonus.

I thought that Norma would have brass available but there is none listed on their website. RWS does not have a listing either.

http://www.qual-cart.com/7x61_Sharp-Hart.htm

[stocker]

Horshur: Standard RCBS forming dies for the 7 x 61 may not form cases that fit a Shultz and Larsen chamber. The chamber dimensions for European produced rifles commonly vary a bit from the chamber reamers used by North American custom gun makers. I've had to return a set to RCBS for custom replacement. The good news is that I have a set of proper forming dies for Shultz and Larsen chambers made to match brass fired in my rifle. If you are ever stuck for brass send me a bag of 300 Win Mag and I'll form them for you. Other brass could be used but I suggest you don't use brass with a headstamp that can be confused by other members of a hunting party who may be shooting a same or smaller caliber rifle chambered for a different case (ie: 7 Rem Mag). Most guys can look at a case formed from 300 Win Mag and recognize that it is not 300 Win Mag any longer where they might fail to recognize it isn't a 7 Rem Mag any longer. Likely no harm would occur to rifle or shooter from confusing the the two 7's (or shooting one in a 300 chamber) but it may cause a missed shot at game. In particular avoid 264 Win Mag brass as you can chamber some 7x61's (depending on bullet type and seating length) in rifles with 264 chambers. I wouldn't guarantee no harm would be done there if they were confused as bullet diameter is different.

[horshur]

Originally Posted by stocker

Horshur: Standard RCBS forming dies for the 7 x 61 may not form cases that fit a Shultz and Larsen chamber. The chamber dimensions for European produced rifles commonly vary a bit from the chamber reamers used by North American custom gun makers. I've had to return a set to RCBS for custom replacement. The good news is that I have a set of proper forming dies for Shultz and Larsen chambers made to match brass fired in my rifle. If you are ever stuck for brass send me a bag of 300 Win Mag and I'll form them for you. Other brass could be used but I suggest you don't use brass with a headstamp that can be confused by other members of a hunting party who may be shooting a same or smaller caliber rifle chambered for a different case (ie: 7 Rem Mag). Most guys can look at a case formed from 300 Win Mag and recognize that it is not 300 Win Mag any longer where they might fail to recognize it isn't a 7 Rem Mag any longer. Likely no harm would occur to rifle or shooter from confusing the the two 7's (or shooting one in a 300 chamber) but it may cause a missed shot at game. In particular avoid 264 Win Mag brass as you can chamber some 7x61's (depending on bullet type and seating length) in rifles with 264 chambers. I wouldn't guarantee no harm would be done there if they were confused as bullet diameter is different.

Thanks very much--Dad has CH dies for it that came with the gun and the fellow had handloaded for it himself. Dad found some cartridge conversion info that used 300HH. I will relay this info also.
Andy.

[stocker]

Horshur: The forming dies are a different ball of wax from the standard reloading dies. If he needs brass formed I have them and we aren't that far apart as for getting them back and forth. New 300 H & H brass is getting just about as hard to find as 7 X 61 Super thus my suggestion to use 300 Win mag brass.
There are some tricks involved in any brass conversion to 7 X 61 due to varying case capacity. Original 7 X 61 S&H brass was redesigned internally to increase capacity and the (reverse) improved version is usually referred to as 7 X 61 Super. Loading data for the original version and the Super cases is not interchangeable and max loads for the two vary considerably. Cases formed from WW 300 Win Mag have a capacity which falls between the two factory versions so powder charges have to be re-determined again for the formed cases. Brass formed from different manufacturers will all likely have different capacity even though they may be for the same cartridge originally. In the end, select a brass for conversion that is readily available in the same brand name and stick with it so you are not forever re-establishing safe load limits and compare the case weight of each batch of new formed brass. The variance between original, Super and formed brass is substantial enough that it is a mandatory exercise to establish load data for each.

[horshur]

Originally Posted by stocker

Horshur: The forming dies are a different ball of wax from the standard reloading dies. If he needs brass formed I have them and we aren't that far apart as for getting them back and forth. New 300 H & H brass is getting just about as hard to find as 7 X 61 Super thus my suggestion to use 300 Win mag brass.
There are some tricks involved in any brass conversion to 7 X 61 due to varying case capacity. Original 7 X 61 S&H brass was redesigned internally to increase capacity and the (reverse) improved version is usually referred to as 7 X 61 Super. Loading data for the original version and the Super cases is not interchangeable and max loads for the two vary considerably. Cases formed from WW 300 Win Mag have a capacity which falls between the two factory versions so powder charges have to be re-determined again for the formed cases. Brass formed from different manufacturers will all likely have different capacity even though they may be for the same cartridge originally. In the end, select a brass for conversion that is readily available in the same brand name and stick with it so you are not forever re-establishing safe load limits and compare the case weight of each batch of new formed brass. The variance between original, Super and formed brass is substantial enough that it is a mandatory exercise to establish load data for each.

Wow! Okay I understand. Thank you very much! we might be bugging you some day....

Andy

[stocker]

Horshur:
If he needs some done send me a PM and I'll reply with my mail address and he can send me a bag or two of new brass to do for him. I mention new brass as old brass is frequently work/age hardened to the point that it has to be re-annealed before it will form properly. Not a good deal as the annealing has to extend to just below the shoulder of the parent case. There is a considerable amount of case re-shaping and shortening before it's all done. I'll supply some (free) 7mm cast bullets that he can load for fire froming as they are easy on the bore and don't cost much to begin with. Proper practice is to load them so the bullets are either in contact with or as close as possible to the barrel lands as you can get. As S & L rifles have free bore you can't always get bullet/land contact despite your best attempts. The idea is to get as close to a custom brass/chamber fit as possible and if the bullet will hold the cartridge tight to the bolt face on initial firing it will locate the case shoulder correctly for your chamber. However I've encountered no problem getting proper formed cases when I couldn't get the bullet in contact with the lands. I'm hoping a new bullet mould I've recently obtained will allow that but I haven't had occasion to test it yet.

[Downwindtracker]

I think the 7mm S&H shoulders further back than the 7mmRM,that's where problem for the RM/Weatherby shooters would be. Norma,they were factory ammo for it, made two types of brass for the 7mm Sharpe and Hart.The later ,after mid-60s??,were made with a thinner wall of higher tensil brass making the smaller capacity S&H almost a 7mmRM/7mmWeatherby.Since the S&L are rear lockers don't bother looking for that little extra when reloading.